Axios' Marc Caputo:

Mr. President, welcome to the Axios Show.

President Trump:

Thank you.

Caputo:

We wanted to make this more of a conversation than a typical interview where we're just going to hop around from topics to topic, and we wanted to do, Axios likes to do "1 big thing." And so the one big thing we want to talk about is power, and how you think about it and how you wield it. And so a decade ago, you first became president, and you've had loads of experience since then. In that span of time, what is the one big thing you've learned about wielding power?

Trump:

Well, I think you have to do it judiciously. I think that experience is good. I always say that potential is far more important. In other words, having ability is far more important than experience. But having both is very good. And I learned a lot during the first administration. And I was told just the other day, because you know we had a tremendous G7 and very dominant G7. We got what I wanted. And somebody said the other day that this is a far more powerful administration or term than the first one. And we had a good first term. You know we had the best economy. We had a lot of good things happening. Rebuilt the military. We did a good job. But I feel it's a more powerful term than the first one. Now that comes with experience. It also comes by having somebody precede you who was a disaster. The man was a disaster. And so when you compare to somebody like that, you look maybe better than you are. That's possible, but I feel that it's a very powerful administration right now.

Caputo:

But that's because you've applied lessons, you've done some things differently. What are some of those things you did differently, or better than you did before?

Trump:

Well, it's a terrible answer actually, but I don't think about it. I just do what I have to do. I want to get something done. I don't say, oh, I'm going to do it a little bit differently this time. I probably say that down deep, but I don't think about, like 'Gee, what can I do differently?' I just want to get the job done, and I've always gotten the job done. That's how I got elected the first time, and that's how I got elected the second time. But the second Trump administration is a more powerful. And it feels more to me. I may not be wrong. You would know maybe better than I would cause I don't give it a lot of thought, but I think it's a more powerful administration. And I think the first one was really good. You know, I rebuilt the military in the first one. I did Space Force. I did so many things. We had the best economy. We had a great economy. We had the best job numbers. We had everything. First administration was good. We got hit by COVID. That's not my fault. But at the end. But we had a great administration. But this one is I think better.

Caputo:

You've mentioned the G7. You saw a number of world leaders. You walked in and you said, I'm the boss. How many of them believe that?

Trump:

All of them. But I was just being funny. What happened is they're all sitting, and then I walked into the room and it was just sort of funny because there's a very long table, but there's only seven of them. The table was meant for like 30 people. So the whole end of the table looked like almost the perfect podium-type setup, right? And I saw them all sitting. They're all well-known figures. The heads of countries. We had a couple of others in there too, as you know. As an example, Modi of India, a great guy. A lot of people came. They're allowed to come if they want and sit. But I walked in there, these leaders, and I just looked at 'em. I said, I'm the boss, and you remember. And you know that was done as a joke. This thing I carried all over the world. I can't believe it. I was just being cute. Funny. I wasn't trying to be the boss.

Caputo:

You have experience, obviously, with the world leaders from your two terms. What's your definition of a great leader? How do you define?

Trump:

Well, you have so many different types of leaders. Yesterday as an example, I'll mention the name again because pretty great. You know, all my life I've watched India. They just kept changing, changing, changing. Somebody would be there for six months and then a year. And then all of a sudden, Prime Minister Modi ends up there. He's been there for more than 12 years, very solid. And he does it through, like, there's a great calmness, and yet he's not a calm person. He's a very tough guy. I know him very well. And you have such different leaders. I watched Brazil, the leader who I know a little bit. We have some — he's a very volatile person.

Caputo:

You're not a fan of Lula, if I'm not mistaken.

Trump:

I'm not a fan or not a fan. I don't think about him to be honest with you. I don't really think about him. I couldn't care less. But he's a different kind of a person now. Very volatile. I watched as he made a speech. It was a very volatile and it's fine. It's all different types. So when you say about leaders, when you say about, you know, what do they all have in common? Look, they're all smart. You can't get to that level without being smart. You know who is very smart — is President Xi of China. He's a very smart man. You don't get to those levels where you are running a country, even if it was a small country, you have something special. Now, in some cases, it doesn't work out, but you need something special. It's not an easy thing to do.

Caputo:

What is it about Xi that you find most admirable?

Trump:

So we have a very good relationship, and you probably heard me say yesterday, I said, you know, I want to thank him because he didn't get involved with the whole thing with Iran. He could have gotten involved. He could have sent a nice oil ship surrounded by 12 destroyers and see if he could blast his way through the blockade, which was an unbelievable military. I think it's going to go down as one of the great military maneuvers. It was every bit as important as all the bombing we did. It really, they were dying. They had no money, no nothing for months. But President Xi, I asked him, I said, I'd really appreciate you not getting involved. And he was great. He didn't get involved. And I think if somebody else would've said that, I don't think somebody else would've even asked him that. But I did, I get along with him well. He's a strong man. He's no games. He won't sit down and say, oh, what a beautiful day. This is a wonderful day, Marc. Look how beautiful. Look at the sunshine. There's none of that stuff. It's like all business, which I like. I think it's great.

Caputo:

Is there something about the Chinese system that you think advantages him in his country that you wish you had here?

Trump:

Well, it's actually supposed to be a disadvantage. You know, we have the entrepreneurship and all the things you read about, but they're there just about as quick as we are. You go to something's hot, and we get there and the Chinese are standing there before us, or we beat 'em by a little bit. But I'll tell you, we're beating them on AI. We have the strongest military in the world. We have the most powerful military in the world. He admitted to me, you have the most powerful. I did a great job. I rebuilt our military in the first term and did it well. Look, take a look at Venezuela. 48 minutes. The whole thing was over. 48 minutes. And by the way, now we have a great relationship, and we've paid for that war with Venezuela many, many, many times. We're taking out millions of barrels of oil and we're making them more money than they've ever made before. All the big oil companies are moving in. It's amazing. There's no place with that kind of oil. I guess us, maybe, we have the most, and they're probably second or third.

Caputo:

Obviously, if I ask you who are the two greatest, or leaders you like the most on the world stage, I'll assume one of them is Xi.

Trump:

Yeah, I think in terms of leadership, I think that's true.

Caputo:

Who's the other? When you think of power and leverage and the ability to execute on that?

Trump:

Well, I think Modi is very good. Yeah, they've had some very good numbers announced. He stays out of wars, which is smart. He's 1.5 billion people. He's actually the biggest. India's actually the biggest. Modi's a great leader, and we do a lot of business with them, but now we do fair business. They used to really rip us off. I don't blame them for that. We had stupid politicians, but, that allowed that to happen. But now we do a lot of business. They're not that happy about it because they used to do a lot better. But Modi's great. President Xi is great. Classics, you know. I mean, if you were going to make a movie about either one of them, you wouldn't be able to find the man in Hollywood. I'm telling you. As an example, the look of Xi, he's got a great look. Looks don't matter, right? We don't like to, they say don't talk about looks, but he's tall.
He's 6 foot 2. He's got a great stature. He's got great confidence, and he is smart. Modi in a very different way. Just highly respected. I've seen, you know, I know the real Modi is a very tough cookie. I'll tell you, you have, I got to know some that I didn't know very well. In Pakistan, you have the field marshal, who is great. Munir, he's great. And you have the prime minister, and they just get along great. I figured, well, maybe the military guy would be, he totally respects the prime minister. It's a beautiful thing to see. But they really helped us with this deal. They knew the Iranians, they knew the people and they were good. You have leaders in, I mean, you have so many different types. For the most part, if you're a smart person, you can understand to be in these positions, you have to be smart. You have to be tough. Maybe smart even more so, but the combination is probably better. But we have, there are a lot of great leaders out there, and there are a lot of really bad ones.

Caputo:

Okay, let's talk about that.

Trump:

I know, who's the bad one?

Caputo:

Who are the two weakest?

Trump:

Well, I can't say that because…

Caputo:

You're the president.

Trump:

I can't say. I will tell you, though, that this couple of days was interesting. It was held in France, and Emmanuel Macron of France, who won't be there that much longer, he's the president and he was, I'll tell you what, he did a great job of hosting the G7. Really good. No games, no nothing. And he invited me about a week before. He said, would you do me a favor? Would you come in to Paris? We'd like to honor you. I view it as honoring the nation. But he said, I'd like to honor you. And he had the biggest people in Europe there and beyond. I mean some people in Versailles, and I was sort of not going to do it, but he knew my weakness because I like Versailles, it's one of the great places. I figured...

Caputo:

What's your weakness?

Trump:

Like, places like Versailles. But no, it's incredible. And it's not something they do. I understand. They don't do that. They don't do dinners at Versailles. And we had a fantastic dinner. I think he did a fantastic job. I'll tell you with the G7, I've seen G7s. I've been to a lot of G7s, and it used to be G8s. They should have kept the G8. You probably wouldn't have the war with Russia and Ukraine if they did, but Obama didn't want Putin there. I guess one or two others also. But they wanted Putin out. It used to be the G8. It would've been much better if they kept that that way.

Caputo:

Speaking of Putin, who do you admire more out of the two of them? Putin or Zelensky?

Trump:

Well, I think it's amazing what's happened, actually. You have a war that should have been over very quickly. You know, I don't know if you know the story, but when that started, Putin had hundreds of tanks that were driving up a highway. There's a highway, concrete, very good highway, solid as a rock, right into Kyiv. And about halfway there, he would've been there in three hours going at 51 miles an hour, which is about the max speed for a tank. And they had, you remember the big line of tanks? And they had some general, who probably is no longer with us. He decided rather than going right into Kyiv and ending the war on the first day. I don't think anyone even knows this story, that he would go through the farmland and through the dirt in the mud. And they had a record-setting rainstorm a couple of days before, and those tanks got stuck in that mud.
And I gave them Javelins and they took out the tanks. I gave it before this happened. But you know there's an expression because they say, oh, you're so nice to Russia. I'm not nice to Russia. I've been very tough on Russia. I've been very tough on China, tougher than anybody. That's why they respect me. I have good relationships with these people, but I gave them Javelins. A javelin is an anti-tank weapon, and those tanks were obliterated. And everybody said, what's wrong? Because, you know, they have the satellites, right? The satellite photos and the tanks were lined up and they weren't moving for days. And then they came to hit 'em with satellites. They were locked in quicksand, practically. It was mud like quicksand. They couldn't move. Had the general just, tells you. That's why war is always risky. Had this general just gone right up the concrete highway, they would've been in Kyiv within four hours, and there wasn't a damn thing that Ukraine was going to do about it. That war would've been over in one day. That was four and a half years ago. So that was a terrible mistake. And here's a general, decides rather than going up the middle of a highway right into the town, they couldn't have done anything. They were totally unprepared. And not only that, when they wiped out all these tanks, it gave them confidence. You know, confidence is very important. But have you ever heard that story, by the way?

Caputo:

I haven't heard that story. I know that you had armed Ukraine with Javelins in the prior administration.

Trump:

You know the expression: Trump gave him Javelins, Obama gave him sheets. Right? That's true.

Caputo:

Let's shift a little, cause time is of the essence. Shift to Iran. There's now light at the end of the tunnel for the conflict. What have you learned about not just the exercise of power, but the limits on your power as a result of the conflict?

Trump:

There are no limits.

Caputo:

No limits?

Trump:

No, none. I haven't learned that lesson yet. I know there are, but there are no limits. We defeated them totally militarily. I was asked by Pakistan because they're close to please not do anymore. I said, I like them a lot. You know, I stopped Pakistan from fighting India, two nuclear nations, and the prime minister of Pakistan said, President Trump saved 50 million lives. They were going to use nuclear weapons. 11 planes were shot down. They were at it. And I was hearing about it, then I saw some really terrible pictures. They were going at it, Pakistan and India. They have gone at it in the past, but this was, and they're both nuclear-armed, heavily, and they were going to use those nuclear weapons. And the prime minister of Pakistan said Donald Trump saved 50 million lives. But it's not 50. I think it was much more than that. 50 is nothing when you look at 1.5 billion people just in India alone. So I think that there are no limits. We have the most powerful military in the world by far. Who else could have done a blockade like that? I did a naval blockade where not one ship was able to get through. Some tried. They didn't, you know, it didn't last very long,

Caputo:

And it certainly brought Iran to the table more than before. However, beginning a conflict you had talked about you only wanted unconditional surrender. And...

Trump:

Well.

Caputo:

The MOU doesn't look like unconditional surrender.

Trump:

Well, it really probably is unconditional surrender. [Axios: It is?] I think so. Look, they have no military. They're all at the bottom of the sea. 159 ships. That's what they had.

Caputo:

Sure, but they could still menace. They only had these small Gashti boats or go-fast boats.

Trump:

Look, you call it what you want. I hear the JCPOA, the Obama nuclear catastrophe, which was so bad. When Obama left, he didn't hit their military. He didn't damage their navy or destroy their air force. I destroyed the air force. I destroyed their anti-aircraft weapons. That's why we were flying over there totally unimpeded. We turned off all the stealth. They couldn't do a damn thing. He didn't do any of that stuff. He didn't kill their leadership. I did, twice. Two and a half times to be exact. He didn't do anything to Soleimani. I killed Soleimani.

Caputo:

And you killed the ayatollah.

Trump:

And I killed the ayatollah.

Caputo:

And a number of IRGC officials.

Trump:

And I sadly hurt the other ayatollah, who I will tell you, I did not meet him. I did not speak to him, but people were speaking of. But he's got a certain braveness because he was, he's badly injured.

Caputo:

Oh, the second, the jr. Nevertheless, all of those things being true that the...

Trump:

Well, you can't just say, oh, forget about. Excuse me. I wiped out their military.

Caputo:

I don't dispute that.

Trump:

I destroyed their general. OK. Ready? Soleimani was the father of the roadside bomb. When you see, which is a description of something that people understand. When you see soldiers walking around without legs, without arms, with an obliterated face, 96.2% that came from Iran. Came from Soleimani. It was his favorite weapon. And I killed him. And he killed thousands of soldiers and thousands of other people, tens of thousands of other people. And I told the story the other day for the first time, you're not supposed to do that with Israel. And Israel at the last moment backed out when I killed him, that was supposed to be done with Israel. It was a joint thing. We worked on it for 30 days. He only travels in commercial airliners with lots of people because he knows we're not going to shoot him down. You know, a military plane is different.
And he got into the plane. Everything was on schedule. But a day before, Israel told us they're not going to do the attack. And I understood that, because it was not so good for them. But I went to certain generals, not the stupid ones like Milley and some of these guys that were very stupid people that decided to leave equipment behind. I don't leave equipment behind. But I went to some good guys. I said, what do you guys think? They said, well, we can do it without em, we don't need 'em, sir. I said, would it be as good? They said just as good or better. And it was a flawless attack. Now, that was one of the biggest moments in the history of the Middle East, because he was the most feared man in 100 years. Even Iran, even the Ayatollahs, even. They all feared Soleimani.
Now ready? Did Obama do that? No. That was a big thing. If I didn't take him out. And they also, in doing it also took out the head of Iraq's ISIS. But if I didn't do that, we may not be talking today about, you know, this such a conclusive victory. Because he was a general, he was a very evil guy. He was a bad guy, but he was smart. He was a very tough general. You know what he was going to do? He was going to blow up five of our military bases. I got him one week ahead of that attack.

Caputo:

But that was in what? 2019?

Trump:

I don't care. It was part of the whole thing. I made that statement yesterday. I said, you know, for those people that say, oh, maybe I wasn't tough enough: I've wiped out. I took out their biggest bridge because they showed up late at a meeting. They said that wasn't very nice. You know, that bridge, that's their George Washington Bridge. I wiped it out in three minutes. I took out Kharg Island, everything except one thing. I said, leave the pipes alone because I'm not looking to damage the world economy. So I think we were very tough. Listen, the people that say, oh, he could been tougher. The entire military is gone. Ready? Air force is gone. Do you agree? It's gone.

Caputo:

Wiped out.

Trump:

There's no airplane.

Caputo:

Yes.

Trump:

There's no airplanes. They had a lot of 'em. There were 200 of them. They're all gone. Navy. 159 ships, right? All at the bottom of the sea. Leadership, their first stringers all gone, including Khomeini, the first one. They then put a new group in there. Very good, but very nasty. I dealt with 'em. They're gone. They're all gone. Then we're dealing with the third group who I actually think is the smartest group. And I actually think it's regime change. If you want to know the truth, it sees a different...

Caputo:

How was the regime change if you had...

Trump:

Because they're different people.

Caputo:

But you have Khomeini Jr. You still have a lot of IRGC officials there.

Trump:

They're different people. All right, Khomeini Jr. is different from the father.

Caputo:

You have a number of...

Trump:

And we have people that are much less radicalized than the previous two groups, of which I knew 'em both. But think of it. Oh, why aren't you tougher? The only way I can get tougher is if I go in there for another two or three weeks and continue to bomb the hell out of 'em. Right? But what does that get us? The Strait of Hormuz will not be open. Let's say I did that. Let's say I decided to do that. That it was a decision I had to make. So right now, our stock market is through the roof. The oil prices are tumbling. The oil prices are practically the same as they were before it started. The big difference is that Iran will never have a nuclear weapon. They're never going to have a nuclear weapon. OK? It's very clear and very simple. But if I were hitting them right now, when you stopped, if we're not going to put boots on the ground, OK. I mean you don't want boots on the ground, right?
If we're not going to put boots on the ground, probably the same people, you know, they go deep into the caves. They're called granite caves. They're very powerful. They go deep and then when we stop, they'll come up and they'll probably be the same leaders. So nothing, OK, ready? When I knocked them out, we knocked them out so powerfully, we would right now have the Hormuz Strait would be totally closed. It would have mines all over it and it would have missiles flying over billion-dollar ships. And those ships will never sail. We wouldn't have oil for months. As long as you're dropping bombs, that thing is automatically closed because those ships cost 500 to a billion dollars apiece. They're not going to be sailing with rockets. So just to finish, I just looked, oil is tumbling. The ships are roaring out of there. They want to go home, they want to drop. They're all full with oil. There's a gusher. I mean, we have 7 or 800 ships are leaving, but if I attack them, none of those ships are leaving. The stock market is way up, way, way up. You know, the stock market is up over the last four or five days when it looks like we're going to make a deal. Stock market's up thousands of points. Everybody's richer. Now, would you rather have that or be like some stupid people? I'll be honest with you, I lost respect for some people because...

Caputo:

Who'd you lose respect for?

Trump:

I don't want to mention the names.

Caputo:

Oh you can,

Trump:

But you know, hardliners. Oh, you got to take 'em out yet. Well, what let me tell you. And plus, I'm not looking to kill people.

Caputo:

Well, what are you going to do to the, in order for your plan to be fully executed as the MOU indicates, eventually it's going to have to go through Congress. There are Republicans in Congress who don't like this.

Trump:

Well, so far, not too many, but I think it'll get approved. And if it's not approved

Caputo:

What are you going to do?

Trump:

By the way, Obama never got his plan approved. You know that right? Now, Obama did something very different. He thought could buy...

Caputo:

I think he got it approved by the Senate, but it wasn't a treaty. I think...

Trump:

Got the treaty, which you're talking about.

Caputo:

No. Even the sanctions, for instance, some of the sanctions

Trump:

No, look, I negotiated from total strength. The navy was gone, their air force was gone, their leaders were, everything. In fact, the hardest part is so many leaders were gone, it took us a while to figure out who is their leader. You do understand that.

Caputo:

I do. But the Republicans who oppose this, when votes come up in Congress

Trump:

Who are they?

Caputo:

There are a number of them.

Trump:

I mean, Lindsey Graham just came out with a very positive statement.

Caputo:

Is there going to be a price to pay for any of them if they oppose you on this?

Trump:

Oh, if they do, no. Yeah. Not from me.

Caputo:

Now, one of the things you had talked...

Trump:

Frankly, if they approve it or not, look, it is what it is. We've got the greatest economy on Earth. I've got the strongest military and I built it. I've got destroyed. Obama, when I took over the military from Obama, he gave all our money away to people. He gave hundreds of billions of dollars away to Iran. And by the way, that's the other thing. I'm not giving money to Iran. I don't give money to Iran. What's going to happen is this. Obama took over. He didn't kill Soleimani. I did. He should have, by the way, because Soleimani was, he had some good plans. And I'm watching the way, I've known you, Marc, you're trying to act like, oh, you hate to hear, but you can't. You have no argument for me because you can't win. Here's what I was going to say. Some guys that I used to respect, I don't respect anymore. They're hardliners. But I have the argument with them. They're unable to win the argument with me. They can't win it. And so they go, here's the end to say, alright, I don't care. I still don't like it. OK, that's what you [garbled]. If I went further, the stock market would be much lower. Now, think of this.
I have one primary wish as president, in terms of people, I never want to be the late great Herbert Hoover. So this is the kind of thing that could cause a worldwide depression. Do you know that for the last two months I've been taking many ships out there and nobody knew it. You know why they didn't know it? Because we knocked out their radar. We knocked out all of their defensive stuff and they were unable to see. Last week we had one night, 25 ships. One night, 22. One night, 19. One night, 21. So every night all these ships out.

Trump:

Oh, people were saying, where is this oil coming from? Nobody knew. We'd leave at one o'clock in the morning, all lights off, and we'd have our Navy Destroyers going alongside and they had no equipment because we destroyed all of the equipment that would normally be used to detect this. And I went for a month and a half taking many ships out there every night at one o'clock in the morning. And we were never detected until about a week ago. And then I announced that we're doing it.

Caputo:

I think the New York Times had reported that you guys were engaged in that operation of 20 ships or whatever. I wanted to shift to

Trump:

They shouldn't have. If they did, they shouldn't have.

Caputo:

Well, they had good sources.

Trump:

I mean, that's very, not very patriotic If they did.

Caputo:

Well, I did want to talk about Cuba and AI.

Trump:

We'll do it. And we have to do it fast because they're waiting for me at a very important meeting.

Caputo:

So you had said if Cuba is, or better said, if Iran is finished, then it's time for Cuba.

Trump:

Right.

Caputo:

Is there a clock, a countdown clock on Cuba?

Trump:

It's a flexible line, but Marco is involved very much. Marco's doing a great job, by the way. All my people are doing a very good job. But Marco's parents, it's such a great story. His parents were from Cuba. So you do agree, I defeated Venezuela. Incredible.

Caputo:

Hundred percent. How do you make the operation of Cuba look more like the Venezuela operation?

Trump:

Well the difference is Venezuela has oil. Cuba doesn't. Cuba has a nice property and they have nice shoreline.

Caputo:

Right. How do you make it look more like the Venezuela operation than the Iran operation? Iran operation took longer. Venezuela was done quickly.

Trump:

I think the Iran operation, in a certain way, it's much bigger, much more powerful from the standpoint of weaponry than Venezuela. But Venezuela is a very military state. You know, they have a lot of soldiers. We went into that fort and they had thousands of soldiers in, and we went in with 201 people. And that was, the pilot was very brave. He had his leg shot from underneath. The machine gunner who escaped a bad life, a bad debt. So no, I think that Venezuela, here's the thing. In Venezuela, it was so incredible.
And we waited and waited and at the right time I said, let's go do it now. We waited for the weather. We had to wait six days. We had some really bad weather. You know, the pilot said, sir, we want to do it. We went in less than ideal. They didn't care. And it actually lasted 48 minutes. And this is an army. You know, they have a lot of soldiers, a lot of good soldiers. With, if you look at Iran, they've been doing this stuff for 47 years. They've been taunting you and everybody else, all of the media, everything. They're very good with the press. They have a great fake media. And I put out a Truth a little while ago. I said, if I had the white flag of surrender raised, and if they said, "praise be to Allah, Trump is the greatest president, we hereby surrender," The New York Times would write that they won the war. They've lost so much credibility. So it's a very different kind of a place than Venezuela. But Venezuela, you know, we're running Venezuela with the people that we

Caputo:

Do you see the Cuba operation running similarly to the way?

Trump:

Possibly. It's possible. Well, there's another thing. These places are close by. Whereas if you look at Iran, that's a very long trip. You know, I flew to that area a few times and unrelated to this, but you're flying for 18 hours, you're flying for a long time. Venezuela is relatively close and Cuba is a hopscotch.

Caputo:

Well, I wanted to talk about.

Trump:

We're going to have Marco get involved with Cuba. Cuba wants to talk very badly. We have a lot of people that voted for me, like 95%.

Caputo:

Some of your strong support is in the Cuban American community.

Trump:

That's right. I love them.

Caputo:

So wanted to present this to you, just the map of the Western Hemisphere. When you look at, I mean, not as a gift, right? But when you look at this, do you see this as a fundamentally American hemisphere? Is this fundamentally more and

Trump:

More so. Yeah.

Caputo:

More and more.

Trump:

We're much more respected. So we had a man that couldn't walk up a flight of stairs, and I don't want to talk about this because if I have a trip a little bit, they'll say, oh, this is terrible. OK, it can happen. But you can't trip every time you go on a stage. We had a man that wasn't respected. He wasn't smart 40 years ago. He was the worst thing that ever happened to old people. Cause I have old people, friends of mine that are 93, 95 years old. They're a100%. Gary Player, great golfer. I played golf. He shot 71. He's 90 years old and he's mentally exactly the same as he was for the last 30 years. There are a lot of people. Biden was the worst thing that ever happened to old people because you guys were not honest with the public. The public saw it. He was a disaster. And, you know, the worst thing he did, inflation was really bad. But that wasn't the worst thing. The worst, because I inherited all this stuff. Look at what's happening with prices now. They're coming down and with the oil, they're really coming down. I had to make an excursion to stop a very volatile group of people that are smart, very smart. You know, the Iranians, very smart people. They're sort of primitive genius, but they're smart.
I had to stop them because if they had a nuclear weapon, they would use it. And you want to see bedlam, let them blow up a couple of cities someplace, like they would've blown up Israel. If it weren't for me, Israel would not exist today because I terminated the Barack Hussein Obama deal, the JCPOA, which was a road to a nuclear weapon. They would've had it five years ago. They would've used it within the first week, in my opinion. And Israel would no longer be with us. Israel would've been gone years ago had I not done that. Now, what surprised me most is they waited so long, they waited till I came back. They didn't do it intentionally. They didn't think I'd be coming back. A lot of people didn't think so because of weaponization. They weaponized government. But I came back with a roar, but better than before, I think better than before.
And think of it, Israel would've been gone if we didn't hit them with the B2 bombers. All that enriched material, they were one month away. It was right there. They could have walked down. They can't do that anymore. You know, the B2 bombers did their job with those great pilots. That ceiling, the mountain collapsed on top of it. It collapsed on top of it. Had we not hit them, they would've had a nuclear weapon. They would've used it on Israel. You would've used it also in Saudi Arabia. And you saw that on Qatar, on UAE, on Kuwait, Bahrain. Because when that war started, I guess my biggest surprise, almost immediately missiles were flying at these five other countries. I said, why is he doing it? And you know what that did? That brought those five countries right into my lap. They were great.

Caputo:

And last one, artificial intelligence.

Trump:

Excuse me just one second. If it weren't for Donald Trump and Bibi Netanyahu, worked well with me, but he will tell you, we're the ones with the guns. We're the ones with the whole deal. We're the ones with the B2 bombers, etc. If it weren't for Donald Trump, Israel would've been eviscerated.

Caputo:

Your relationship with Netanyahu's, it's

Trump:

Good, but we have to keep him a little bit sane.

Caputo:

Are you going to be able to control Israel from attacking Lebanon?

Trump:

Yeah, I will be. I wonder. They have a lot of respect for me, and they do as I say. Remember this. If I don't terminate the JCPOA, road to, remember that was a road to a nuclear weapon legally. It says right there. And Obama thought he could pay them off. He gave them billions and billions of dollars. 1.7 billion in cash. It was a well-known story. But it didn't work. You can't bribe your way out of it. You can't pay off your way. But if I didn't do that and if I didn't attack their nuclear supply 10 months ago with the B2 bombers, Israel would not exist today.

Caputo:

So artificial intelligence. Did not a very artful transition by me. Do you see artificial intelligence as a weapon?

Trump:

Well, improperly used it could be. If properly used. I will tell you one thing, it's so big.
It is big. Nobody's. I mean, bigger than the internet. It's bigger than any. I've seen the different things come along. It's an age where people like you, if you are nice smart people like we are, we watch and we see what's happening. This AI is incredible. Now. It's unbelievable for good. You're going to have medical cures coming up 25 years early because of it. You're going to have other things happening, but you have to watch. You know, we have a situation with Anthropic and we didn't like what they were doing. And so far, I think they behaved very responsibly to our request.

Caputo:

Do you view Anthropic, and to a degree its CEO Dario Amodei, as a threat to national security?

Trump:

Well, not now, but a week ago, maybe. I was with him yesterday. He made a speech. I made a little speech. We were in the room in the G7 and seems like a nice guy, smart guy. But he responded to us very quickly, because you know it's tremendous liability. People get put in prison immediately for that. You know, you can't play games with that. And he responded very responsibly, I thought. So far, I think he will.

Caputo:

Do you have the power and the inclination to shut them down or possibly take them?

Trump:

Well I don't want to do that because I'm somebody that, you know, we're beating China by a lot on AI. I was with President Xi. We talked about it. We're beating China by a lot. Everyone thought that we didn't have the electricity. I came up with an idea. I thought of it myself. I let them build their own electric plants when they're building their factories. That way we don't have to use an old grid. And they actually sell back into the grid at a cheap price. Excess electricity. They need massive amounts. It's amazing, Marc. They need double the amount of electricity that this country produces for everything to run it. So I had the idea. I said, I'm going to let them. I mean, we don't have that kind of electricity. Really. Nobody does. And they're building their plants and they're building the most incredible electric producing factories you've ever seen. So we are leading China by a lot. It's going to be for the good and we're watching for the bad.

Caputo:

Is there

Trump:

I think the good, let me put it a different way. The good far outweighs the bad. We are going to find the bad and we're going to stop it.

Caputo:

You have the power to use the Defense Production Act potentially.

Trump:

I have the power to use a lot of things. Yeah.

Caputo:

Would you consider using the Defense Production Act to possibly regulate, control AI or AI?

Trump:

I would, but I'm not sure I have to do that. I think so far it's been very responsible. Actually, it was a competitor and a part owner that turned Anthropic in. They didn't like that what they were doing. They were very concerned. Think of it, it's part owner, and I think it worked out very well, I think.

Caputo:

And France at the G7 had talked about having an international group that comes together. They want the United States to share more on AI is since

Trump:

Well, the problem we have is that we are leading everybody by a lot.

Caputo:

Right. Is power shared, power lost?

Trump:

Yeah but here's the problem. In Europe, I heard maybe it's wrong, but we have many of the top, almost all between us and China, we have almost all, the first European company that's in AI is number 187. So that's not too good. Europe has to be very careful. They're losing their way. They're losing their way entrepreneurially. And I mean the big thing is energy was, look, the U.K. is sitting on the greatest oil find, one of them in the world, the North Sea, the great North Sea. They have one of the greatest, they're not using it because of the environment. And if they did use it, their energy prices would be cut by 75%. They don't want to use it. And yet they buy their energy from Norway, which uses the North Sea. And Norway's got $3 trillion sitting in the bank. S, you know, it's crazy. I have to go. I'm so late. I did this out of respect for you, but I have to go. Do you want to just close it up?

Caputo:

Yeah, let's close it up. Where are you in, as you wind down your presidency? You've got two more years.

Trump:

I don't call it a wind down. I think we got a lot of time. We have two and a half plus years.

Caputo:

Every presidency has a life cycle. And as a president comes to in a second term to his last midterm, his party usually loses control of the House. His poll numbers usually start to decline, and he starts to weaken. And that's happening to you.

Trump:

No, it's not. Fake polls. I have great poll numbers.

Caputo:

How do you maintain?

Trump:

I would beat any candidate they have by 25 points.

Caputo:

How do you maintain your,

Trump:

I have great poll numbers.

Caputo:

How do you maintain your power going forward? You have the Senate that's republican.

Trump:

I don't think about it. No, I don't think about it. All I do is do my job. I have more than two and a half years. I have a lot of time. But all I do is think about doing my job. And we have other things, very big things that I want to do in the next two and a half years. Some very impactful things. Things are happening that aren't good and I'm going to straighten 'em out and some things are happening that should be better and I'm going to make them better. This is a great presidency.

Caputo: Are you going to miss being in this White House?

Trump:

Well, it's so early. I don't like to talk about it because two and a half years is a pretty long time. In all fairness. I love the building. I'm fixing the building. I do that in my little side hobby I've, you see the granite, which was, they had stones that's broken. The marble's broken. The tile they have is garbage from a low-class place that sells garbage. This is the White House. You saw the white floor. I assume you saw the beautiful granite. I fix it. I pay for it myself. I don't want money. And the White House will soon be in better shape than it was. And most importantly, when it was built, most importantly, I'm building what will be one of the greatest ballrooms and safety nets anywhere in the world. It's all bulletproof glass. It's all drone-proof roofs. It's actually a drone port on the top of the roof with views of everything. It's very high up.

Caputo:

And you're going to be able to get there through the Senate. I know the Senate has been, well,

Trump:

I don't it for the Senate. I'm paying for myself. I don't know what they're talking about, giving a billion. I don't need money from the Senate. I'm putting up my own money and the money of very great patriots. Apple, Microsoft, you know all. We don't need money. We have a judge that said he'd rather have it be put up by the government. Why? We're giving a gift of a tremendous military and also a very important ballroom for safety. You see how many, with all the whack jobs, all these crazy people, the bulletproof glass is this thick. Nothing gets through it. The drones won't hit it. They'll bounce off the roof. We're actually putting a drone port up. That's very important. But we have a judge that probably doesn't like Donald Trump. Fortunately, we have appellate judges that, you know, I've done okay with the appellate judges, but I have not done so well with some of these judges that probably have Trump Derangement Syndrome. But I will say, just in finishing, we've taken Washington, D.C., from a death trap to one of the safest cities in America. We took crime down 94% in a period of a year. This place when I got here was a death trap, and now it's one of the safest cities in America. I beautified it. New grass. Got rid of all of the graffiti. 48 fountains and monuments have been, not I mean, so bad graffiti all over. 50 years, they weren't touched. And now they're all beautiful.

Caputo:

And then there's going to be an arch.

Trump:

I think maybe the greatest of all will be what's called the Triumphal Arch. Yeah.

Caputo:

Mr. President, I appreciate your time. I know you've been rushed today. I don't think you had any sleep, did you?

Trump:

Not much.

Caputo:

So you flew across.

Trump:

I had two hours for you. Two hours. You need more than two hours for him, right? Anyway, thanks.

Caputo:

Well, I appreciate your time. Thank you very much, sir.

Trump:

I appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Go deeper: Watch the extended interview.